Talk:Media Matters for America

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February 2024 clean-up summary[edit]

Efforts to get article to B-class have included addressing: NPOV, OR, SYNTH, Undue Weight, excessive quotations, Non-notable sources, Non-notable content, BLP, copyediting to get more precise and concise text and section titles, removing redundancies, organizing more clearly, generally copyediting for consistency + clarity, fixing incomplete or inaccurate citations, and citation formatting with most of the issues addressed and the rest flagged. Superb Owl (talk) 01:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This kind of work is difficult, it's a long article with many sources, plus it is not easy to neutrally describe an organization that has a bias! -- GreenC 02:18, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Left leaning[edit]

Suggest we make citation #1 into a single cite - perhaps the NYT or something already used elsewhere. Then move the other cites into a talk page section. And leave an inline edit comment referencing where to find additional sources. The article has a lot of sources, and reduction will help. There's no reason to have all these sources for this claim, it gives the appearance of battleground. Lead sections should have minimal citations. -- GreenC 02:02, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources moved (Special:Diff/1206036745/1206038687) from the lead section to the talk page:

  • Russonello, Giovanni (February 12, 2021). "How Conservative Outlets Are Covering Impeachment, or Not". The New York Times.
  • Dwoskin, Elizabeth. "A quarter of Trump's 6,081 Facebook posts last year featured misinformation or extreme rhetoric". The Washington Post.
  • Choi, Joseph (February 18, 2021). "Nearly a quarter of Trump's Facebook posts in 2020 included misinformation: analysis". The Hill.
  • Schwartz, Brian (August 17, 2020). "Pro-Biden super PAC hosting virtual convention pre-show for donors with guests including Mary Trump". CNBC.
  • "The facts on advertiser boycotts against cable news networks". PolitiFact.
  • Flynn, Kerry (November 20, 2023). "Elon Musk's X sues Media Matters for America". Axios.
  • Lahut, Jake (2021-06-15). "Fox News has mentioned 'critical race theory' nearly 1300 times since March, according to watchdog study". Business Insider. Retrieved 2021-09-10.

-- GreenC 02:08, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It might be nice to keep/improve the most notable sources for those of us who don't know a lot about Media Matters and are coming into the conversation without as much background information or ideas? Open to this streamlining but it probably heads-off more discussions in the future
On a related note, I removed 'liberal' as an adjective from the short-desc btw to be more concise and avoid confusion as to whether the group was a watchdog of liberal media or a liberal group that was a media watchdog...felt that keeping it short was more important than including that adjective there when it's also in the first sentence. Superb Owl (talk) 04:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Browsing the talk archives, this issue of "far-left/liberal/left-leaning/progressive" in the first sentence has been debated extensively including many RfCs. Most of it is very old now. The sources above are all more recent. I have no problem with "left-leaning" personally. It does seem like how to characterize the org on the political spectrum is a perennial topic that has used up extensive amounts of editor time. Strange.
If we keep all these sources in mainspace it should be in the article body IMO, not as a big list of sources in the lead sentence. It signifies battleground, which does appear to be the case. -- GreenC 05:17, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have a hunch all the above were cherry-picked for the rather watered-down phrase "left-leaning." A Google News search for "Media Matters for America" in the past year of course finds the phrase is sometimes used, but the same outlets (and other exceptionally reliable sources) also describe MMfA as a "liberal advocacy group",[1][2], "left-wing advocacy group",[3] "liberal (media) watchdog group"[4][5][6][7] "progressive analysis group",[8] and especially, "progressive watchdog".[9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16] This is not a scientific analysis, but suggests that "left-leaning" may not be the single best descriptor to use to introduce the organization.

Going beyond those pesky dumb journalists, recent scholarly sources, when they make any mention of partisanship, also use terms such as "progressive watchdog",[17], "progressive nonprofit organization",[18] and "liberal and progressive"[19] as well as "left-leaning".[20][21] --Animalparty! (talk) 05:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is technically speaking a media watchdog organization. To say it's an advocate takes it further and suggests bias even intentional inaccuracy, the very thing they are trying to expose from the right. It's like boomerang at ANI, it's hard to point fingers at someone without fingers pointing back. Go into a mud pit, and you will come out muddy. I prefer we try to remain as objective as possible and not throw more mud, muddle. The best way to do this is avoid labels as much as possible. If someone is saying they are advocacy group, ok what academic journal or book lays out the case for this? Not only using the word, but justifies and explains why in more than 1 or 2 sentences, really makes the case for it. That is a POV we can report on and explain in our article. -- GreenC 15:54, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not lobbying to introduce it as an advocacy group in the first sentence (although I don't see how calling something an advocate/advocacy group suggests intentional bias: are human rights advocates intentionally inaccurate?), rather I think the degree of partisanship should be clarified. If an organization was frequently called "conservative" or "right-wing" or "far right", as well as sometimes "right-leaning", would we think "right-leaning" is the best descriptor? --Animalparty! (talk) 18:15, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Bella, Timothy (21 November 2023). "What is Media Matters, the liberal watchdog sued by Elon Musk's X?". Washington Post.
  2. ^ Ortutay, Barbara (21 November 2023). "Musk's X sues liberal advocacy group Media Matters over its report on ads next to hate groups' posts". AP News.
  3. ^ "Advertisers Push Back at Social Media Firms over Antisemitism". The New York Times. November 17, 2023.
  4. ^ Stroth, Steve (21 November 2023). "Elon Musk's X Corp. Sues Media Matters Over Report on Pro-Nazi Content". Time.
  5. ^ Lapin, Andrew (22 November 2023). "Elon Musk says he'll donate X ad revenue to hospitals in Israel and Gaza as advertisers flee over antisemitism". Jewish Telegraphic Agency.
  6. ^ "Elon Musk, under fire, threatens lawsuit against media watchdog". Reuters. November 20, 2023.
  7. ^ "Elon Musk says X to file 'thermonuclear' lawsuit against media watchdog". ABC News (Australia). 18 November 2023.
  8. ^ Will, Carless (6 November 2023). "When Libs of TikTok posts, threats increasingly follow". USA Today.
  9. ^ Pengelly, Martin (2 May 2023). "Tucker Carlson: leaked video reveals fired host's crude off-camera remarks". The Guardian.
  10. ^ Pengelly, Martin (4 May 2023). "Tucker Carlson makes insinuating remarks on women in new leaked video". The Guardian.
  11. ^ Mastrangelo, Dominick (12 December 2023). "Missouri AG launches investigation of Media Matters". The Hill.
  12. ^ Mastrangelo, Dominick (21 November 2023). "What to know about Elon Musk's feud with Media Matters". The Hill.
  13. ^ Ingram, David (21 November 2023). "X sues Media Matters over report about ads appearing next to Nazi posts". NBC News.
  14. ^ Ingram, David (12 December 2023). "Media Matters sues Texas attorney general over response to Elon Musk dispute". NBC News.
  15. ^ Wiggins, Christopher (December 14, 2023). "Media Matters Sues Texas AG Ken Paxton". The Advocate.
  16. ^ Tenbarge, Kat (1 July 2023). "Conservative influencers are pushing an anti-birth control message". NBC News.
  17. ^ Bauer, A. J.; Nadler, Anthony (2019). "Taking Conservative News Seriously". News on the Right: Studying Conservative News Cultures. Oxford University Press. pp. 1–16. doi:10.1093/oso/9780190913540.003.0001. ISBN 9780190913540.
  18. ^ Earle, Heather, and Shane Gunster (2021). "Fire and climate: connecting the dots in British Columbia news media." Canadian Journal of Communication 46 (4): 961-982 doi:10.22230/cjc.2021v46n2a3845
  19. ^ Bauer, A.J.; Nadler, Anthony; Nelson, Jacob L. (March 2022). "What is Fox News? Partisan Journalism, Misinformation, and the Problem of Classification". Electronic News. 16 (1): 18–29. doi:10.1177/19312431211060426.
  20. ^ Meeks, Lindsey (2022). "Media Distrust and Republican Identity in Trump's Wake". In Gutsche, Robert E., Jr. (ed.). The Future of the Presidency, Journalism, and Democracy. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-003-20573-9.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (link)
  21. ^ Forde, Sydney (2022). "UnFoxing Market Failure: Complicating Media Matters for America's #UnFoxMyCableBox Campaign for Digital Activism". In Gutsche, Robert E., Jr. (ed.). The Future of the Presidency, Journalism, and Democracy. Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781003205739-13. ISBN 978-1-003-20573-9.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (link)

Why is MMFA Funding Elevated to the Fore ?[edit]

At the fore of this article is MMFA's funding sources. Is this an attempt to prejudice the reader? Other Wikipedia articles about New Media Alternative conservative outlets don't even have funding sections (the Daily Wire for example.) 2600:8801:BE28:A800:8B7:2C3E:74C8:F3A9 (talk) 18:48, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I'm not a fan of funding sources. They are invariably outdated, incomplete and misleading. Typically used to sway readers. If the organization publishes a list of funders, link to that, but otherwise leave it alone. Don't cite partial lists, unofficial lists, etc.. that's where the problems are. -- GreenC 23:00, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Antisemitism on X (formerly Twitter)[edit]

Two points, (1) the title "Antisemitism on X (formerly Twitter)" is not neutral, that is, that there is or was "antisemitism" on X, was an accusation attributed to Median Maters, and since that accusation is currently in dispute before the court, it would be more neutral to use a title that is more factual, for example, "Median Matters accuses X of antisemitism" (2) The links in this section are outdated and none are from 2024. For example, see the following for more recent content[1].

References

  1. ^ https://lawandcrime.com/lawsuit/falls-short-of-demonstrating-good-cause-federal-judge-hands-elon-musk-and-x-a-discovery-win-in-thermonuclear-lawsuit-against-media-matters/
Well, the top-level section is called "Initiatives", this sub-section identifies the initiative, section titles are not asserting a fact. That's why we don't use citations for section titles, they are only placeholder names. Your suggestion "Median Matters accuses X of antisemitism" is repetitive because it's obvious this is a Media Matters initiative by the fact it's in the article Media Matters in a section titles "Initiatives". Personally I don't see a problem, the section describes the issue, we don't write on behalf of readers who are only reading section titles out of context with where it's located. Regarding the suggested URL, I have not followed this case closely so can't say anything about the content of the section. -- GreenC 18:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It used to be "Twitter (X) advertising" until 10 February 2024. WP:NPOV says "Pay attention to headers, footnotes, or other formatting elements that might unduly favor one point of view or one aspect of the subject." and I agree that attention must be paid, but won't revert unless there's more objection to it. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 18:45, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Twitter (X) advertising" is clearly very neutral and probably more in line with how it should be since the aim of MMA is to go after advertising ie. it is another "cancel culture" campaign. (not sure if there is a more neutral term for "cancel culture" since this is a pejorative). -- GreenC 19:51, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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