Talk:Al-Ma'mun al-Bata'ihi

Ma'mun Al-bataihi was a warrior vizir responsible for restoration of the Fatimid state after much loss of glory. Please do help by contributing. DistributorScientiae (talk) 13:30, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

References

Please borrow references from the other language Wikipedia.DistributorScientiae (talk) 20:46, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Al-Ma'mun al-Bata'ihi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Cplakidas (talk · contribs) 12:10, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: UndercoverClassicist (talk · contribs) 13:23, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I know very little about this period (certainly much less than the nominator), so will focus on prose, MoS and so on, with content points where I can. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:23, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

• Is there any image at all that could be used to represent him -- I know portraits are unlikely, given the Islamic rules against them, but perhaps a signature or similar?
  • I have looked far and wide, unfortunately nothing that is uniquely representative of him. Constantine ✍ 20:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
• the all-powerful vizier: suggest being a little more specific: was the vizir actually omnipotent?
  • Not entirely ;) have rephrased it to 'the de facto ruler of the state'.
• carried out a number of tax reforms: suggest cutting a number of (it could hardly have been otherwise). If the number is quite big, suggest several or many.
  • Have removed it entirely as it is superfluous.
• Al-Bata'ihi also hunted down Nizari agents and sympathizers; the al-Hidaya al-Amiriyya, issued in 1122, rebuffed Nizari claims and affirmed the legitimacy of Musta'li Isma'ilism. : can we do anything in the lead to clarify a bit about who these people and what these beliefs are?
  • Added a brief explanation both in the lede and the main body.
• In the Levant, attempts to take the offensive against the Crusaders failed, with the loss of Tyre and a naval defeat at the hands of the Venetian Crusade.: I'd put a date on these.
  • Done.
• AH 478 (1085/6): you might consider clarifying this to "1085–1856 CE", as we're explicitly working between different calendars here.
  • Good point, added the CE and AH wherever the two dates are given.
• nisba of 'al-Bata'ihi': I'd italicise rather than using single quotes, given the ' midway through the word.
  • Done.
• Could we explain nisba -- something like epithet?
  • Done.
• Hyphenate rags-to-riches as a compound modifier.
  • Done.
• when he died in 1118, the funeral prayer was read by caliph al-Amir (r. 1101–1130).: I would cut the regnal dates here: they're only really useful when we don't know anything about the date except that it happened during someone's reign, but here we have a more precise one (1118).
  • Good point, done.
• ghulams: something odd has happened here: the s is not italicised and not part of the link.
  • This is deliberate, as this is an English plural of an Arabic word; the proper plural would be ghilman. I am indeed not sure whether I should not include the 's' in the italics, but then it would give the false impression that 'ghulams' is transliterated from the Arabic.
• al-Bata'ihi ordered a tahwil ('conversion') ... al-Bata'ihi ordered a new cadastral survey (rawk): for GA, I don't have a particularly strong feeling about whether we should give the Arabic and bracket the English, or vice-versa, but we should probably be consistent. Some reviewers would advise sticking to English as far as possible in the main sentence.
  • Except that cadastral survey is an English technical term, but 'conversion' is merely the exact translation of the Arabic technical term, for which I am not aware of an equivalent technical term in English.
• increased state income by 50,000 gold dinars: was that a lot? Can we have any idea of what it might have represented in real terms?
  • It was a hefty sum; I added a comparison, am on the lookout for something better though.
• the Jew Ibn al-Munajja: is his religion necessary or important here? Would strongly advise cutting or at the very least rephrasing so as not to use it as a noun in apposition, which can read as pejorative.
  • Notable in the sense that Jews and Christians played a far more important role in Fatimid administration than in other Muslim states, but you are right, here it doesn't really add much.
• The enterprise proved very costly, which led to the imprisonment of Ibn al-Munajja: passive voice seems odd here: presumably someone imprisoned him?
  • Added.
• caliph al-Amir: capitalise Caliph here.
  • Done.
• was also re-instituted, after almost a century where it had not been celebrated, as were : could cut where it had not been celebrated (you can't re-institute something that has been continuously celebrated)
  • Done.
• Fatimid-Ismai'ili: is this "Fatimid and Ismai'ili" or "that subset of Ismai'ili that was also Fatimid"? If the former, should be an endash.
  • The latter, especially as juxtaposed to Nizari Isma'ilism.
• al-Bata'ihi scored a major success: suggest rephrasing per MOS:IDIOM.
  • Done.
• al-Imad citation: hyphen in title should be an endash.
  • Done.
• Suggest adding a short description.
  • Done.
• Am I right that "Sayyida" is a title/honorific rather than a name? Suggest clarifying in a footnote if so.
  • Correct. I have linked to the corresponding article, and italicized the titles to distinguish them from the actual names.
• In note B, MOS:WORDSASWORDS would like e.g. al-Afdali either in double quotes or italics.
  • Double quotes it is.

Image review

• All images have alt text and good captions.
• File:The story of Cairo (1906) (14782234955).jpg: licence checks out.
• File:Cairo, moschea di al-aqmar, 04.JPG: Egypt has freedom of panorama, so all OK here.
• File:Fatimid dinar - al-Amir bi-Ahkam Allah.jpg: technically speaking, needs a PD tag for the original work (the coin). I am honestly a little suspicious that it's genuinely the uploader's own work (it looks like an image used to display a coin on an auction website), but in the absence of a smoking gun I won't push this one.
  • Noting that this one isn't done yet. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
    • It almost certainly comes from the CNG website [1], but thankfully we have permission to use these images. I have replaced/added the relevant copyright tags. Constantine ✍ 09:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Source review

All sources appear to be reliable and are formatted consistently.

Spot checks

• Note 9D: checks out.
• Note 44: checks out.
• Note 33: to support "[the caliph] was a poor public speaker", the source has "he himself, despite his love for ceremonies, did not excel at this task [of preaching]". I would consider changing "public speaker" to "preacher": there are other reasons, other than a lack of eloquence, why someone might not be great at preaching.
  • Done.

@UndercoverClassicist: thanks for taking the time, I think I've dealt with most of the issues above. Constantine ✍ 20:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

• Brilliant -- source review done, just a few bits and pieces there and further up. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
  • @UndercoverClassicist: I think I've dealt with the remaining items. Constantine ✍ 09:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

    Yup, all looks good to me. Passing -- nice work. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 11:05, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the Fatimid vizier al-Ma'mun al-Bata'ihi helped empower Caliph al-Amir, only to be imprisoned and executed by the latter?

• Source: Summary of the article sections 'Rise to power' and 'Downfall and death'.

• ALT1: ... that the attempts of Fatimid vizier al-Ma'mun al-Bata'ihi to construct an astronomical observatory led to rumours of his wanting to use it to predict the future or perform magics? Source: Halm, p. 139: "im Volk munkelte man gar, dieser habe mit Hilfe des Saturn die Zukunft zu ergründen oder Magie zu treiben versucht"
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Battle of Dollar

Improved to Good Article status by Cplakidas (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 143 past nominations.

Constantine ✍ 11:47, 30 May 2024 (UTC).